Posts by Cold Steel

38

What IS the meaning and purpose of EVIL?

by Monsieur in

reading about the massacre of the jw family in mexico brought up all kinds of questions again.. from the standpoint of someone who doesn't in believe in 'god' or a 'conventional' god,.

what is the meaning and purpose of evil?.

how does it relate to the overall universe and its balance?

Cold Steel

Cofty: Congratulations you have made the shortlist for the most ignorant post of 2013.

From you, Cofty, this is truly a compliment!

15

Which vacation would the Society prefer a Witness take?

by LogCon in

of the three following vacations, which one would the watchtower society prefer that a witness take?.

1 - a three week working volunteer vacation in bethlehem, to help the international palestinian youth league and the alternative information center, [ a joint palestinian and israeli activist organization] to turn a former israeli army base into a residential compound with a school, a hospital, a youth house and a series of gardens.. 2 - a three week working volunteer vacation to help the local food bank collect, stock and distribute food to the needy.

duties would include preparing tasty and nutritious meals for local residents including families.. 3 - a three week cruise from seattle to hawaii, enjoying all the amenities of the luxury liner, as well as seven days in hawaii enjoying the scenery, the restaurants and the hot, sandy beaches.. if you are able to make more detailed comments i would greatly appreciate it.

Cold Steel

I know this may be radical, but what if you just don't tell anyone that you're going on vacation? Or where you're going? Even if someone hears you're going out of town, you don't have to give them any details, do you? You can say, "Yeah, we've never been to Cancun, so we're taking a week off and going there. We want to see some of the Mayan ruins and get in some scuba diving."

What could they possibly say except, "Have fun!" If they're the kind of people who think demons will come screaming out of the skull walls, would they dare counsel you about it? Even if they did, you can say, "Hmmm...never thought about that. Okay, we'll skip the Mayan ruins and go out on a pirate cruise and buffet. Yo, ho, yo ho, and all that!"
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3

"I wasn't exactly sure if I believed what I so clearly felt!" - Julia Sweeney

by Oubliette in

i wasn't exactly sure if i believed what i so clearly felt!.

in this excellent ted talk, julia sweeney shares how two mormon boys got her to re-examing her own catholic beliefs.. letting go of god.

julia sweeney: letting go of god .

Cold Steel

*Sigh*

As a comedy routine, it needs work. I kept thinking of the Spock v. Q jig, which is much better written.

If anyone wants to know the real story of the Book of Mormon, I recommend they get the book version. Bill Maher made the same point about Mormons and modern Christianity in about fifteen seconds. In other words, any belief system can be ridiculed, and that's good to a point. The problem is that often intelligent people begin thinking someone like a comedian has a point. Comedy relies on both oversimplification and the unexpected.

If one were to go back in time or visit a tribal village in Africa and attempt to explain quantum physics or astrophysics/microphysics and such things like dark matter, atoms, electrons and what have you, you might have a credibility problem. The virgin birth isn't as ridiculous now as it was 200 years ago. Now a woman can become pregnant from a man she's never met and actually spent his entire life on another continent: all with the power of the test tube. Resurrection was an insurmountable problem for the ancient Greeks, though they had their own theological problems. Philosophers would ask Peter why a huge elephant had only four legs to support its immense size while a tiny spider had only eight; and their listeners laughed their heads off and think it was the funniest thing they'd ever heard.

So, again, it's a great comedy gig if you're into such things. Just never take comedians too seriously.

10

Bible Study to Service: How Long?

by Cold Steel in

someone agrees to a bible study and it goes very well.

the investigator answers all the questions correctly and shows a great interest in the message.

how long does it usually take before he/she is urged to do field work?

Cold Steel

They call the meetings "Bible studies," but the first thing they do is put a small book in your hand and then begin asking leading questions. There wasn't much Bible reading in it. I understand if you ask too many of the wrong questions they leave and never come back. I've even been told some dust their shoes off as a witness against you during the day of judgment.

Is that where they get the saying of "dusting" someone?

If I wanted to find out how JWs interpret a certain chapter or section of scripture, where could I go? Do they print commentaries?

15

Which vacation would the Society prefer a Witness take?

by LogCon in

of the three following vacations, which one would the watchtower society prefer that a witness take?.

1 - a three week working volunteer vacation in bethlehem, to help the international palestinian youth league and the alternative information center, [ a joint palestinian and israeli activist organization] to turn a former israeli army base into a residential compound with a school, a hospital, a youth house and a series of gardens.. 2 - a three week working volunteer vacation to help the local food bank collect, stock and distribute food to the needy.

duties would include preparing tasty and nutritious meals for local residents including families.. 3 - a three week cruise from seattle to hawaii, enjoying all the amenities of the luxury liner, as well as seven days in hawaii enjoying the scenery, the restaurants and the hot, sandy beaches.. if you are able to make more detailed comments i would greatly appreciate it.

Cold Steel

You didn't include doing volunteer work at a blood bank.

17

The Ultimate Jehovah's Witness Question??? dun dun DUN

by runForever in

there is a gray space, unconnected rifts in the truth.

it is a question that once you ask it you will never be the same - like being on the.

event horizon of a black hole.

Cold Steel

Where does the Society leadership justify forcing members to do door to door work? It's NOT in the Bible. It has NO precedent. Apparently the members have let themselves be hogtied into such a movement and rely on magazines instead of the Bible. Haven't they read the book of Acts? John said the gospel would be preached in all nations, and then the end would come. But he didn't say who would do the preaching, and from everything that's been learned about first century Christianity, there's NOTHING to indicate that the general membership would 1) be ordained ministers and 2) that they would go out in twos to preach.

Seventh Day Adventists don't do it. Miller didn't do it. No other religious sect does it and Jesus never told the membership in his day to do it. Instead, elders, priests, teachers, deacons, bishops, seventy and others were called of God and ordained by those in authority. Speaking of the high priesthood, Paul said no one takes this honor unto himself but he who is called of God as was Aaron. (Heb. 5:3) How was Aaron called? See Exodus 28. He was called when God gave Moses a revelation specifically telling him to separate Aaron and his sons and clothe them with holy priesthood garments so he could serve in the priest's office. He had nothing to do with his own calling.

JWs quote Matthew 19, but only the part in red do they quote. What comes before isn't quoted:

Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

First, the "eleven" apostles (who were called and ordained) were the ones being addressed. Jesus is worshiped and tells the apostles that "all power" has been given him. The reason is because he is the God of Israel. He told the apostles to go into all the world and to preach the gospel. We know these apostles appointed and ordained bishops and established churches, and that they called missionaries to preach the gospel. But nowhere did he say that baptized members had any priesthood powers or the authority to baptize others.

So all this business of logging hours and going out on weekends to do this preaching is a manmade doctrine and done with no authority whatsoever. So it makes me wonder if someone is baptized into the Society and decides to just go to church and not do missionary work, what would happen? Would they be disfellowshiped or shunned?

Didn't any of you guys ever question all the Pioneer stuff and the recording of hours? Back in the early 70s, JWs would write on the walls of apartment buildings in discreet places showing dates and areas tracted. It would be in the format of something like a tic-tac-toe grid. They still do that?

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10

Bible Study to Service: How Long?

by Cold Steel in

someone agrees to a bible study and it goes very well.

the investigator answers all the questions correctly and shows a great interest in the message.

how long does it usually take before he/she is urged to do field work?

Cold Steel

Why did you investigate it so long? I'm reading Kyria Abraham's book, I'M PERFECT, YOU'RE DOOMED, and finished another one, and both authors talk about how local leaders butted into their lives to incredible degrees. The JWs have ruined a lot of lives by keeping people from pursuing higher education and better jobs. Certainly they'll stay home tonight so they can see who Red John is!

What really gets me, though, was the pressure to live in certain places, conduct business in certain places and be so judgmental in condemning everone but themselves to eternal death.

10

Bible Study to Service: How Long?

by Cold Steel in

someone agrees to a bible study and it goes very well.

the investigator answers all the questions correctly and shows a great interest in the message.

how long does it usually take before he/she is urged to do field work?

Cold Steel

These are some of the most fascinating posts I've read so far, and too many people are telling the same story. At some point there is rebellion. At what point do they begin trying to control your life? And is it common that they try to interfere in aspects of your life like washing machine soap, where you have services such as dry cleaning and what sort of music you listen to. How would they know these things, anyway? Do they snoop? Doesn't anyone resist and just say, "Nah, I like this soap better," or "Nah, I like the way they starch my knickers at my place," or, "I found a way to copy all the songs to a CD except for 'Rise, Dark Lord and Do My Biidding!"

Is there nothing they feel is beyond their ken? And if not, when does one go from investigator to someone they feel they can control? In other words, when do they start butting in? As far as I see it, no ecclesiastical group should ever seek such authority over the types of things people have told me about.

38

What IS the meaning and purpose of EVIL?

by Monsieur in

reading about the massacre of the jw family in mexico brought up all kinds of questions again.. from the standpoint of someone who doesn't in believe in 'god' or a 'conventional' god,.

what is the meaning and purpose of evil?.

how does it relate to the overall universe and its balance?

Cold Steel

As much as atheists hate to admit it, if there is no God, there is no moral significance to good an evil. For if there is no law, there is no sin; and if there is no sin, there is no righteousness or unrighteousness, and thus no happiness (for happiness cannot exist outside of righteousness) and, consequently, no punishment or misery and, lastly, no God.

Evangelicals try to say that God created righteousness, and then his creations created evil. They fail to understand that one cannot exist without the other; for righteousness cannot exist without evil and it also cannot exist without God.

The one thing that evolution cannot hard wire us for is a knowledge of good and evil, because that requires an intelligence that's not hooked into survival. Evolution, as seen by Darwin, accounts only for instincts related to survival. And if survival meant more than anything else there could not and would not be self sacrifice, compassion, empathy, honesty, or virtue. There also would be no justice, for animals completely lack the concept. They may sacrifice themselves for their young, but only because it adds to the survival of the species. Not because they have a sense of nobility.

Survival rests solely on what one can get away with. Had Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot and others been able to get away with what they did and the killing and torture of so many millions of people, then, if there were no God, they would have no one to answer for other than themselves. And it wouldn't have been for good or evil; it just would have been. A million years from now, no one would even remember it or care. And because there is no God, there would be no justice, and if no justice, no punishment. Thus, the actions of all people would be neither good nor evil because good and evil would merely be abstract terms.

Finally, good and evil could not exist except in an environment of free agency. There would be no virtue in forcing men to do good and to desist from doing evil. If God were to force people not to murder or to harm their fellow men, or animals, then he would rob them of free agency, and that he cannot and will not do. He may, on occasion, protect his people and his prophets, but on occasion he's also let evil run its course. Just before Jesus ascended into heaven, he told the apostles they were going as sheep among the wolves and he offered them no hope of victory in this life because he knew of the coming apostasy. In fact, I know of only one apostle who was not murdered for the cause of Christ, and that was John.

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10

Bible Study to Service: How Long?

by Cold Steel in

someone agrees to a bible study and it goes very well.

the investigator answers all the questions correctly and shows a great interest in the message.

how long does it usually take before he/she is urged to do field work?

Cold Steel

Someone agrees to a Bible study and it goes very well. The investigator answers all the questions correctly and shows a great interest in the message. How long does it usually take before he/she is urged to do field work? I've been interested in this aspect of the religion and also wondered where the notion of church members doing missionary work comes from? It was never required in the ancient church nor is it required in any modern Christian church that I know of.

What if someone just wants to be counted as a member, but continues to see his/her "worldly" families for family reunions or keep the worldly friends he'd made before even joining the Society? Or suppose a JW met someone at work that shared his interest in, say, skydiving, hunting, target shooting, white water rafting and so forth?

On another thread, someone said people with beards shouldn't be allowed to participate in certain meeting activities. I've also read where members also participated in skits. Is this something children do, or does everybody do it? If one just attends Sunday meetings, can he/she be formally disciplined, or is it simply a counseling situation?

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